Here's a good question for discussion from the bleachers. Let me throw it out for your thoughts. I have a lot to say on this topic, but will wait for your thoughts. Here's my friend's question-
Mike,
As a Christian that loves to argue the fine and unimportant issues of Christian life I came to a question that I have no good answer for. On the question of 'faith versus works' I am strongly on the faith side. The real issue then becomes "how much understanding of the true God makes my faith valid?". I am not looking for a one-on-one explanation of this question, but I am putting it out as a question for your blog, or possibly a sermon topic. God tells us that we can never fully understand Him while we are still in the flesh, so is the knowledge of God through His work in creation, with faith that He will provide for my eternal needs enough?
Always questioning and never fully knowledgeable Mike McM
Ok, readers, have at it and have fun....
11 comments:
I would say : It is not the amount of understanding we have of the true God that makes our faith valid. It is the sincerity of our faith in His one and only Son whom He sent down to dwell with us and show us the character and nature of God. It is more a heart issue rather than a mental/mind issue. In saying that it is obvious that we would need to have some understanding of who Jesus told us who He was and also that God also said that this was His one and only Son in whom He is well please. John 5:24 states “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.” and John 3:16 states “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. Both of these verses and many others express the importance of believing (aka faith). In John 14 Jesus told Philip( in reply to his request to show them the Father) that anyone who had seen Him(Jesus) had seen the Father. He also told them that the words he spoke were not His own but His Father who lives in Him and did His work through Him. I would say that initally there needs to be some understanding of our true God and that He sent His Son(who had no sin) to earth to dwell with man and be the ultimate sacrifice for OUR sin to save us from spiritual death/ separation from God for eternity and do believe in this truth which is our faith. As we study His Word [which brings life, wisdom and blessing to us here on earth] our understanding of our one true God increases and we will be held accountable for how we used our understanding to bless others and further His kingdom. This gives us opportunities to be a part of his great works and to accumulate jewels for our crown that we will then get to lay at His feet. Faith in itself is believing even when it doesn't make sense. To me when it doesn't make sense to us it is because we lack understanding of the whole picture...which only God who is omniscient can. I would love to hear/read your feedback of my thoughts, Mike.
Natalie
What a great question McM! Maybe it isnt about having the right answers, but rather the genuine longing and affection for God?
That then is the affirmation of your spiritual life.
Like they say, a sign of struggle is a sign of life.
john
From Mike McM
Natalie, from what you wrote a knowledge of Jesus as the Son of God and His saving work is the basic requirement for the type of faith that brings salvation. Most of what you wrote has to do with His work in us to bring us into the life He wants for us to live. You have given the orthodox Christian view.
John, your answer is closer to where I was headed , but it begs the question of other religious people that do not know our Christ. Is just seeking a god enough?
Mcm,
Depends on who you ask I suppose. I am not one who believes that deep spiritual questions can be completely answered and understood while in the flesh. Gods ways are his own and the ways of the spirit are beyond our normal rational functioning. Making the contents and requirements of faith into a formula is more of a human thing than a God thing I believe.
My personal opinion is that God is loving and merciful. And he wouldn’t punish someone eternally just because they don’t have the right things floating around in their head during this brief stint of human life. He sees the heart of man, and he knows who sincerely loves him and who does not. In my humble opinion, and that’s all it is, is that we are to respond to the light with which we are given. There is the light of conscience, creation, and Christ, or the logos as the first chapter of john puts it.
"In him was light, and he was the light of ALL men"
This is the light to which we are to respond, the innate love of God in us all, moving and working within us to bring about our spiritual development. And I think the end result looks like Jesus of Nazareth.
Again, great question you have asked. Maybe the fact that you are questioning such things is the answer in itself?
Regards,
John
It is unthinkable that God would sacrifice His Son to purchase heaven for sinners but leave them to fend for themselves against the power of sin in this life (cf. Romans 8:32-39). This includes knowledge of GOD
David, good point, one that is complimentary to mine I think. In us all, is the divine spark so that we are all without excuse of the knowledge of God. As we come into a deeper relationship with God, our knowledge of him will grow. Although, I don't think we should expect a "full" knowledge of God in this lifetime. Many things of God are simply a mystery and viewing it as such keeps us not only humble, but open to the transcendent reality of his presence within us. Some things are beyond words and thoughts, and can only be experienced in our spirits, as if God is giving us subtle confirmations of our spiritual condition and progress.
If God is spirit, and we must worship him in sspirit, then that goes beyond the normal realm of human temporal thought and functioning.
John
"Ah! Sir, the LORD must have loved me before I was born, or else HE would not have seen anything in me to love afterwords." -John Newton
From Mike McM
Not an answer to my own question, but my opinion. I beleive God gave us the Bible to tell us how to best live the life He gives us. I can never remember my earthly father ever telling me what was the very least I could do to get by. He told me what he wanted from me and that was basied on what he knew I was capable of doing (most often with his help). Therfore, I think that Natalie's ortodox answer is what we should be telling a lost world. That said, Christ has been give the right to judge the world, not me. Telling the world what God expects from them is what we are called to do. We are not called to exicute final judgement. In truth the question is based on wanting to know what is not give for man to know. My brother died a month or so ago, and he did not meet "my" personal qualifications for salvation. My comfort then will have to be in a God that is more merciful and loving than I am.
Sorry to hear of the passing of your brother McM, truely i am. I have had loved ones pass as well who dont meet the popular version of what salvation requires, and it shook me to my core. Your last statement is where i end up as well, that God is more than we will ever be and that his love is more than i could ever fathom.
it easy to be an armchair quarterback when it comes to the dogmatics of theology, but when it realy comes down to it, i sense there is more than we can see or understand.
So yes, my faith is grounded in God, and not in my own understanding of things about God.
Thank you for opening up such a heart felt question, i only wish it had received more attention from the followers here.
sincere regards,
john
PS...McM, you might like some of Paul Tillich's writings.
john
"Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" (James 2:24)
We had an extensive discussion on this topic elsewhere on the blog.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=31867611&postID=1621478152738282339
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